So no upgrade for an alternator?

[lavie]

I asked around about upgrades on alternators, and they all look to be upwards of $300, and I don't want to do that. I talked to my grandfather who is really into cars, and he told me to just get a couple of batteries and hook them up in parallel.

Would that work, or should I just upgrade the battery I have in there currently?

Right now it is some POS walmart battery that came with the car.

[Mr Car Guy]

The best way to go is a bigger alternator.

Think of the battery as a tank of water.
Think of your cars accessories as pipes draining the water tank.
Think of your alternator as a water pump putting water into the tank.

The way the system was designed is so that the water can be put into the tank as quickly as it is drained, with just a bit of reserve offered by the size of water tank.

Now if you increase the electrical demand; amps, subs, lights, whatever, you increase the drain on the system. You could just increase the size of the battery (tank), but it also takes longer to recharge the bigger battery (fill the tank).

It is more effective to increase the charging (refilling) than to use a bigger battery. Your little alternator will be working continuously to keep all that battery power topped up. That's going to kill the alternator and your sound system will still suck. Yes a bigger battery is good to help absorb the surges, but your alternator will still be over worked. A bigger alternator will help keep the surges from taking as much out of the battery, and it will quickly top up even a large battery.

If you are taking 120 amps out of a system with a 135 amp alternator you have a bit of reserve. If your system only has a 95 amp alternator, that alternator is going to be running full time to keep up, with no reserve. It will come out of the battery and even when the load is off, the alternator must continue working to recharge the battery.

Yes, alternator upgrades are tough sometimes, but your car's electrical system was designed as a package, you should upgrade it as a package. A bigger battery is just a short term band aid.

[Funkycasey]

I like Mr Car Guy's explanation a lot.

[lavie]

well, I was having a bad problem with the headlights dimming.

I haven't looked too hard for an alternator, so I will keep looking.

I do understand how all of that works, and I was just wondering if a new battery would help with the dimming problem...

[Mr Car Guy]

If your voltage is dropping off to the point of your headlights dimming when your lights are on, you've got charging problems.

If you can get a voltmeter on your battery when the car is running, you should have between 13 - 14.5 volts with nothing on. Turn everything on, heater fan, lights, rear defog, and then check. You should still have at least 12.5 volts. If less than this, then your alternator is not charging and you are sucking it out of the battery instead of the alternator providing the juice.

[Funkycasey]

Yeah, could be a charging problem. I believe the stock alternator should be 85 amps for that car. Your amp has 2 x 20 amp fuses, so we can say it will pull somewhere in the line of 35 amps at full load....so where is that other 50 amps going? You should get your electrical system checked, and if it checks out to be alright, upgrade the cable that connects the alternator to the positive terminal of the battery with 4 or 2 Gauge power wire. And also, put an extra ground wire from the negative terminal of the battery to a metal part of the chassis.

[pbasil1]

The best way to go is a bigger alternator.

Think of the battery as a tank of water.
Think of your cars accessories as pipes draining the water tank.
Think of your alternator as a water pump putting water into the tank.

The way the system was designed is so that the water can be put into the tank as quickly as it is drained, with just a bit of reserve offered by the size of water tank.

Now if you increase the electrical demand; amps, subs, lights, whatever, you increase the drain on the system. You could just increase the size of the battery (tank), but it also takes longer to recharge the bigger battery (fill the tank).

It is more effective to increase the charging (refilling) than to use a bigger battery. Your little alternator will be working continuously to keep all that battery power topped up. That's going to kill the alternator and your sound system will still suck. Yes a bigger battery is good to help absorb the surges, but your alternator will still be over worked. A bigger alternator will help keep the surges from taking as much out of the battery, and it will quickly top up even a large battery.

If you are taking 120 amps out of a system with a 135 amp alternator you have a bit of reserve. If your system only has a 95 amp alternator, that alternator is going to be running full time to keep up, with no reserve. It will come out of the battery and even when the load is off, the alternator must continue working to recharge the battery.

Yes, alternator upgrades are tough sometimes, but your car's electrical system was designed as a package, you should upgrade it as a package. A bigger battery is just a short term band aid.

Amazing explanation bro! Rep +!!!

A battery will help. All in all it is much more beneficial to go with an alternator, but then again it is about twice as much as a nice battery. You have to decide in the long run what will be better for you. If you plan to keep the car long and have this system in and possible upgrade. Then go with a nice alternator. Often times its just as expensive upgrading the big 3 and getting a nice battery as it would just buying a new alternator.

But as car guy said, you should get a volt meter and test what voltage your car reads when its under heavy load.

[lavie]

I have used a voltmeter before to watch my car when I was having problems with the amp going into protect mode at high volumes. I found out that I had 1 Ohm the way I had the speakers hooked up.

One thing I did notice was that it dropped as low as 10.8-11.5 volts when the bass would hit really hard.

I have not upgraded my big 3 yet. I looked at the wire going from the alternator to the battery and just by holding it I would say it was a 4 gauge wire. I just ran a 4 gauge wire to my amp, so it is all equal.

I might just go ahead and get a new alternator. I might have better luck asking for one for Christmas... :lachen:

[Mr Car Guy]

Hi

I don't do much in the way of amps & sound system stuff, I leave that for my son who's an installer.

If you've upped the wire gauge from the amp to the battery, and the battery voltage occasionally dips below 12.5, a bigger battery will help. But if you pump it up and the voltage stays below that for more than a few moments, then you will be working that little alternator too hard and it'll give up on you. If you can keep the voltage up, your bass will be stronger too :)

I worked with my son on this issue with his first car with a serious sound system. It was a Chevy Sprint with a 3 cylinder engine. The alternator was probably only 40 amps. He would crank it, and his wipers would almost stop! He tried a bigger battery even though I told him he wouldn't be happy with that. We could have installed a bigger alternator, but with only 3 cylinders, the added load at idle when charging would have stalled the engine. He eventually bought himself a real car, and now has a real sound system. He's very happy.

[lavie]

Hi

I don't do much in the way of amps & sound system stuff, I leave that for my son who's an installer.

If you've upped the wire gauge from the amp to the battery, and the battery voltage occasionally dips below 12.5, a bigger battery will help. But if you pump it up and the voltage stays below that for more than a few moments, then you will be working that little alternator too hard and it'll give up on you. If you can keep the voltage up, your bass will be stronger too :)

I worked with my son on this issue with his first car with a serious sound system. It was a Chevy Sprint with a 3 cylinder engine. The alternator was probably only 40 amps. He would crank it, and his wipers would almost stop! He tried a bigger battery even though I told him he wouldn't be happy with that. We could have installed a bigger alternator, but with only 3 cylinders, the added load at idle when charging would have stalled the engine. He eventually bought himself a real car, and now has a real sound system. He's very happy.

Your son is an installer?

Did he have to get any certification or anything of that nature to be able to do that stuff?

I would love to work for a place like that.

I guess I will go ahead and up the gauge on the big 3 to 0 or 2 gauge. If I still have problems, then I will go for a new alternator. I was hoping to be able to get another amp before anything else, but I guess not if this is going to cost me all of my money.

[Mr Car Guy]

Yes he works at Future Shop, a big electronics super store here in Canada. He does car audio & alarms.

He didn't need a certificate, but he did work side by side with me on many projects, so he's fairly savvy about cars and wiring. They have sent him to some training on their products.

He loves a thumpin' sound system, I too old for that LOL but I still love a thumpin' V8

[cluffenstein]

I have something to add to the dimming headlights. My PT does that too, and its a WELL known problem for my car atleast... I just had my battery replaced today after it totally died yesterday.. For the PT guys, installing a hyperground system or changing your big 3 will fix the problem, atleast it does for most people.

[Mr Car Guy]

I'm not familiar with the PT headlights, but manufactures are using lighter gauge wire now to save costs & weight. Like how much weight can they shave off a car by going down one gauge?

Adding an additional ground wire can perk up sound systems, lighting, and many things by avoiding voltage drop.

Manufactures are also faced with smaller engines in car with lots of bells & whistles. A smaller engine usually means a smaller alternator. Too big, or charging too aggressively will upset the idle. The result, often is that the alternator doesn't put out much of a charge at idle, if any. Driving stop & go, particularly in the winter,with a heater fan going, headlights on, wipers. radio, heated seats, rear defog, yada, yada.
That battery is going to get run down. And if it's really cold, the battery is even harder to charge.

I've seen cars that the battery charge would go so low that the customer couldn't start the car in the morning. I'd check the charging system, everything is up to spec. Just a run down battery. If I turned on everything at idle, which would be typical of crawling in rush hour traffic, the alternator was letting the battery voltage go down to 11 volts, or lower. You can't charge a battery with out voltage. The manufacturer's "fix" was to install a larger crank pulley to spin the alternator faster at idle.

This is why adding subs & amps will cripple most OEM charging systems.

[cluffenstein]

Well... it was only interment... now its constant.. whenever your RPM's are above idle (it still does it at idle, but not nearly as bad) the interior lights, Dash lights, head lights, fog lights, highbeams, reverse lights, brake lights.. pretty much every light FLICKERS CONSTANTLY when your above idle, its even worse when my STOCK sound system's bass hits on a song.. I had the battery changed yesterday, and I even checked, with the car off it pulls 12.9 volts, and running idle 13.9 and under load (2200 RPM's about) 14.3 volts... I'm assuming its my alternator failing.. I've also turned off my remote start (I tried to pull the fuses for it, but the car would die soon after, I'm assuming Circuit City used the SKIM fuse for power. I've also unplugged power to my GPS and Satellite radio and nothing...