Would 1.5L Mirage see much improvement with mods?

[Gandalf]

My ex-gf called me today (believe it or not we're still on more or less friendly terms) and was talking about how she saved 2k over the last year and wants to spend some of it on a car, whether her current car (99' Mirage with a 1.5L) or a new car. I discouraged her from buying a new car until she's at least through her first year of college (she's getting financial aid, but still) just because this car has been incredibly reliable, and it gets great gas mileage. So now she wants to upgrade this car (in her words "make it go fast"). She's thinking of spending $500-$1000 max (hopefully closer to $500). So, my question is, if I added a cold air intake and a better exhaust, would it be noticeably peppier, or just louder? (I mean, there's only so much you can do with a naturally aspired 1.5L) Also, would it be possibly to get a performance tune for the car, and what would the cost/benefit be? And if we do end up modifying the exhaust, what would you recommend? Just a straight 3-inch exhaust with a high-flow cat and either a Flowmaster or Borla muffler?

[Socom]

You would maby see 50hp improvement with the upgrade.
Only Air intake I could find for the car (Idk if it is the same shape of the OEM intake, pic of the engine bay would be nice): http://www.racinglab.com/weapon-r-intake-sc-mitsubishi-mirage-010.html

I would seek to a local exhaust shop for the exhaust because I can't seem to find alot of parts for the car.

[Speed_Demon]

You would maby see 50hp improvement with the upgrade.
Only Air intake I could find for the car (Idk if it is the same shape of the OEM intake, pic of the engine bay would be nice): http://www.racinglab.com/weapon-r-intake-sc-mitsubishi-mirage-010.html

I would seek to a local exhaust shop for the exhaust because I can't seem to find alot of parts for the car.
I don't think it would have that much of an improvement. I'm pretty sure that 50hp is around half of this engine's total output. Mirage Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Mirage)

Anyways, with that said she probably would see a fairly noticeable gain in power with a good, free flowing exhaust (2.25''?) and a CAI. Maybe a 15hp gain and a little peppier engine.

[wierdo124]

Appears to be 92hp stock, so i'd give it maybe 115hp after upgrades.

[Gandalf]

Yeah, it's definitely 92hp atm, but the car is so light it's actually peppier than your would expect at low speeds.

Is the 115 hp you're predicting just with the exhaust and cai, or with a tune as well?

[mega_option101]

CAI and Exhaust are exactly where I would start. The cold air mod should help with gas mileage as well so it's definitively a bonus!

I am a volks man myself so I wouldn't know what else you could do...

General maintence on the car would be a plus a well.

Are you going to be doing the modifications yourself?

As mentioned above, 2.25" or even a 2.5" exhaust would be a more viable solution than going straight to 3" lol

[Gandalf]

Yeah, I've mentioned that she should get a CAI for gas milage already - she gets close to 35 mpg right now anyway.

We've been keeping up on maintenance - regular oil changes with full-synthetic, currently has a drop-in K&N filter which is cleaned regularly, and just recently I replaced the distributor cap and button, spark plugs, and wires.

I'll be doing the CAI myself, but I don't have the skills/equipment to do the exhaust, so I'll have to find a shop for that.

And sorry to keep asking the same question, but assuming we decide to go through with it and install the above mods, would it be possible to add a performance tune? (which would knock down has mileage a bit I would assume, but she's ok with that)

Socom, thanks for the link to the intake - it looks like it'll work. She's supposed to send me pics sometime today, so I'll post'em up then.

[wierdo124]

Yeah, I've mentioned that she should get a CAI for gas milage already - she gets close to 35 mpg right now anyway.

We've been keeping up on maintenance - regular oil changes with full-synthetic, currently has a drop-in K&N filter which is cleaned regularly, and just recently I replaced the distributor cap and button, spark plugs, and wires.

I'll be doing the CAI myself, but I don't have the skills/equipment to do the exhaust, so I'll have to find a shop for that.

And sorry to keep asking the same question, but assuming we decide to go through with it and install the above mods, would it be possible to add a performance tune? (which would knock down has mileage a bit I would assume, but she's ok with that)

Socom, thanks for the link to the intake - it looks like it'll work. She's supposed to send me pics sometime today, so I'll post'em up then.

I wouldn't think a performance tune would even do much for that TBH.

[Retrospekt]

This sounds a little immature to me to be honest. You either buy the small engine economical car to be economical, or you buy the V6 to have fun and show off.

She isn't going to get a nice boost out of anything unless you spend major buck.

[mega_option101]

This sounds a little immature to me to be honest. You either buy the small engine economical car to be economical, or you buy the V6 to have fun and show off.

She isn't going to get a nice boost out of anything unless you spend major buck.

It's all about compromise :)

[Gandalf]

Yeah, I dunno. She just says she wants it to go faster, and she'll spend X amount, she's been warned that there's only so much you can do with a 1.5L without a turbo, etc, and she wants to go through with it. It's not my call. lol

Anyway, I talked to a guy at a local exhaust shop who comes highly recommended, he says if I provide the muffler
http://www.flowmastermufflers.com/products/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3211

He'll provide a high-flow cat ($230) and 2.5inch piping/flex pipe, etc - he said with tax, his parts, my part, labor, etc, all included it will be under $600.
Does that sound like a reasonable estimate?

[mega_option101]

What is the downpipe like on a 1.5L?

I know that for vw's, a major upgrade is to get a dual downpipe and new exhaust.

Why is it again that you cannot do this on your own?

[Gandalf]

I'll have to see about the downpipe. And I can't do it myself because I don't have welding equipment. :(

[Speed_Demon]

Yeah, I dunno. She just says she wants it to go faster, and she'll spend X amount, she's been warned that there's only so much you can do with a 1.5L without a turbo, etc, and she wants to go through with it. It's not my call. lol

Anyway, I talked to a guy at a local exhaust shop who comes highly recommended, he says if I provide the muffler
http://www.flowmastermufflers.com/products/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3211

He'll provide a high-flow cat ($230) and 2.5inch piping/flex pipe, etc - he said with tax, his parts, my part, labor, etc, all included it will be under $600.
Does that sound like a reasonable estimate?A high flow cat for $230?!?!!?

That price seems a little high to me. A good quality aftermarket universal high flow cat can easily be purchased for under a hundred dollars online, if you are willing to have the 02 bung welded in on your own.

Around here you can have your whole exhaust system welded up and installed with your own parts for around $60 total, although that may vary vehicle to vehicle.

A quick search (http://www.car-sound.com/02product/shopdisplayproducts.asp) on magnaflow's site shows that they do have an aftermarket cat that should work for the mirage. Amazon has the universal 2.25'' cat (http://www.amazon.com/MagnaFlow-99205HM-Universal-Catalytic-Converter/dp/B001HMJSEY/ref=au_pf_ss_7?ie=UTF8&n=15684181&s=automotive&carId=004) for $81, and going with the dimensions of the stock replacement, this 2.5'' cat (http://www.amazon.com/MagnaFlow-53006-Universal-Catalytic-Converter/dp/B000COTI7U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=automotive&qid=1250587921&sr=1-1) should fit, and it's only 63.27 shipped.

Also, it's always a good idea to try to find a shop that uses mandrel bent piping, where they run a ball through the pipe as it's being bent to achieve a nice, smooth turn. This alone, even with OE size tubing can account for a big difference if the factory crush bent tubing was a major exhaust restriction.

[Shrimpykins]

CAI would help with mileage. A tune might be able to boost the hp a bit. You won't get much but in a light car like that any hp gains will be noticeable.

[Gandalf]

A high flow cat for $230?!?!!?

That price seems a little high to me. A good quality aftermarket universal high flow cat can easily be purchased for under a hundred dollars online, if you are willing to have the 02 bung welded in on your own.

Around here you can have your whole exhaust system welded up and installed with your own parts for around $60 total, although that may vary vehicle to vehicle.

A quick search (http://www.car-sound.com/02product/shopdisplayproducts.asp) on magnaflow's site shows that they do have an aftermarket cat that should work for the mirage. Amazon has the universal 2.25'' cat (http://www.amazon.com/MagnaFlow-99205HM-Universal-Catalytic-Converter/dp/B001HMJSEY/ref=au_pf_ss_7?ie=UTF8&n=15684181&s=automotive&carId=004) for $81, and going with the dimensions of the stock replacement, this 2.5'' cat (http://www.amazon.com/MagnaFlow-53006-Universal-Catalytic-Converter/dp/B000COTI7U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=automotive&qid=1250587921&sr=1-1) should fit, and it's only 63.27 shipped.

Also, it's always a good idea to try to find a shop that uses mandrel bent piping, where they run a ball through the pipe as it's being bent to achieve a nice, smooth turn. This alone, even with OE size tubing can account for a big difference if the factory crush bent tubing was a major exhaust restriction.

OK, yeah, after looking around I see what you mean. Only thing is, the cats you linked on amazon didn't say what size inlet/outlet they were. On the Magnaflow website they only listed two for the 1.5L engine - one was identical to stock, and the other was 2.25. Do they only make 2.25, and would I then be better of just going with 2.25 inch piping?
Sorry for all the dumb questions!

EDIT AGAIN: Just talked with a guy at Performance Driven (supposedly a great resource, but I've never used them for anything) and the guy was saying that he thinks a 2.5 inch pipe is too big and would reduce backpressure too much, he says I should go with a 2.25. And he said that anything other than a stock downpipe would probably cause the same problem. Does that sound right to you guys? And they still said, if I provided the muffler and cat, piping + welding would cost $200-$250.

[Speed_Demon]

OK, yeah, after looking around I see what you mean. Only thing is, the cats you linked on amazon didn't say what size inlet/outlet they were. On the Magnaflow website they only listed two for the 1.5L engine - one was identical to stock, and the other was 2.25. Do they only make 2.25, and would I then be better of just going with 2.25 inch piping?
Sorry for all the dumb questions!

EDIT AGAIN: Just talked with a guy at Performance Driven (supposedly a great resource, but I've never used them for anything) and the guy was saying that he thinks a 2.5 inch pipe is too big and would reduce backpressure too much, he says I should go with a 2.25. And he said that anything other than a stock downpipe would probably cause the same problem. Does that sound right to you guys? And they still said, if I provided the muffler and cat, piping + welding would cost $200-$250.I was going to say that 2.5'' piping on such a small motor would be a bit much, but I remembered that even 1.6l honda's can see decent benefits from 2.5'' piping, as long as the exhaust is well thought out (Intake/Header/Exhaust together).

A good 2.25'' exhaust system with a free flowing cat and muffler, along with mandrel bent piping will likely increase low end to mid range power. 2.5'' piping will increase the top end a tad, but at the expense of low end power.

Heck, even my 4.0 I6 Jeep uses a 2.25'' exhaust from the factory.

$200 for piping and welding isn't too bad. You could have a nice exhaust setup for around $400.

[lautinjr]

Real high flow cats cost around 180-500 depending on the style yes the ones you listed flow better then stock but they arn't actually considered high flow in the business although when customer say high flow those are usually what they mean. Do you have smog if not just loose the cat run a couple resonators to keep then sound down and keep the pipping as simple and straight as possible. I think 2.5" piping is excessive my 225hp build plan is only going to see 2.5" . It would be extremly loud and irretating at that size to for such a small motor and you would likely only see 1hp at extremly high RPM over 2".

[Gandalf]

Nope, I live in Indiana, no vehicle inspections at all. :D
So you agree with the 2.25?

And I've never messed with any sort of cat-delete, what sort of resonators should I use to keep it quiet?

[Speed_Demon]

Nope, I live in Indiana, no vehicle inspections at all. :D
So you agree with the 2.25?

And I've never messed with any sort of cat-delete, what sort of resonators should I use to keep it quiet?I didn't want to talk about removing the cat because I figured since it's illegal that it would be against the TOS.

You'll only be gaining a few hp by doing it, and the car will smell like crap most of the time when it's stopped. You'll also have to run a resistor inline with the downstream 02 sensor to ensure that it doesn't set any CEL's, or put the car in limp mode.

Just my :2cents:

[lautinjr]

it wont cause a limp mode but it might set a DTC not sure what CEL is but I guess it means the same just canadian. all you have to do to aviod the mil light is space the O2 sensor off the pipe futher most use a spark plug non fouler to space it will take the element out of the pipe enough to make it read slightly less then the front and keep it in spec with out the trouble of the resistor. Removing the cat would add a couple HP but you have to relize if we spent serious money on this car and managed to get 20hp more that would be like a 15-25% increase in power which is major. Even thow it doesn't sound like much

[Speed_Demon]

it wont cause a limp mode but it might set a DTC not sure what CEL is but I guess it means the same just canadian. all you have to do to aviod the mil light is space the O2 sensor off the pipe futher most use a spark plug non fouler to space it will take the element out of the pipe enough to make it read slightly less then the front and keep it in spec with out the trouble of the resistor. Removing the cat would add a couple HP but you have to relize if we spent serious money on this car and managed to get 20hp more that would be like a 15-25% increase in power which is major. Even thow it doesn't sound like muchLol, CEL means Check Engine Light. Spacing the 02 sensor away from the pipe will fix the CEL light and any problems that may arise from that. You could also stick the sensor in the end of a coke bottle like I've heard some of the VW guys do. :laughingsmiley:

[lautinjr]

A coke bottle never heard that one.

[Gandalf]

I didn't want to talk about removing the cat because I figured since it's illegal that it would be against the TOS.

You'll only be gaining a few hp by doing it, and the car will smell like crap most of the time when it's stopped. You'll also have to run a resistor inline with the downstream 02 sensor to ensure that it doesn't set any CEL's, or put the car in limp mode.

Just my :2cents:

Hmmm...the smelling like crap part definitely turns me away from that idea, sine it's a daily driver, not a drag car.

So what sort of cat would you recommend? I mean, I'm not trying to turn this car into a racing machine, she just wants it to be a bit peppier. So should I even bother replacing the cat, or should I just stick with the stock cat? Or would that almost negate the purpose of replacing the pipes and muffler?

[Speed_Demon]

Hmmm...the smelling like crap part definitely turns me away from that idea, sine it's a daily driver, not a drag car.

So what sort of cat would you recommend? I mean, I'm not trying to turn this car into a racing machine, she just wants it to be a bit peppier. So should I even bother replacing the cat, or should I just stick with the stock cat? Or would that almost negate the purpose of replacing the pipes and muffler?With the factory cat in place you will still see more power from upgrading the exhaust to something that flows better. More air in plus more exhaust out (generally) equals more power. :D

[Gandalf]

With the factory cat in place you will still see more power from upgrading the exhaust to something that flows better. More air in plus more exhaust out (generally) equals more power. :D

Yeah, I know, I just wasn't sure if the stock cat would bottle neck it to the point where no more air flows than before.

So all in all, would you guys recommend me getting an aftermarket cat or sticking with the stock cat?

[Speed_Demon]

Yeah, I know, I just wasn't sure if the stock cat would bottle neck it to the point where no more air flows than before.

So all in all, would you guys recommend me getting an aftermarket cat or sticking with the stock cat?
I guess it would be up to your finances, and how much cash you want to dump in for more power.

If it's for a friend's car I doubt that they would be worried about the little extra power that a new cat would provide. Plus you know you could always add a free flowing cat in at a later time.