Rwd Vs Awd

[mugan23]

I was having an argument about the pos and neg of rwd and awd i am an awd kind of guy I like the good traction and I can deal with the under steer. but some people say that u loose a lot of power on an awd system than u do with a rear wheel drive so i was wondering what were ur views on the subject?

[Remonster]

You definitely lose more power because of the fact that you have a torque splitting mechanism that sends a certain ammount of power to the front and to the rear (adjustable on some cars) and that is less efficient than a normal drive shaft on an RWD vehicle, also AWD cars are significantly heavier than comparable RWD models.

AWD definitely has the advantage off the line (look up videos of a Bugatti Veyron taking off from 0-300km/h, don't have the link but imagine a RWD trying to put down 1000HP like that lol, all you'd get is a big burnout.

RWD has the advantage if you're racing from say 30 or more miles per hour because the lighter weight is more important than the added traction.

Cornering is arguable, some people feel that lighter weight RWDs have the advantage while others feel that an AWD has an advantage, I think it's mostly up to your preference, AWDs definitely have the upper hand in the wet or snow though, and off road :rolleyes:

Personally, I prefer rear wheel drive, look at my avatar, you couldn't have that much fun in an AWD IMO.

[mugan23]

ya def more funn rwd (look at my avatar 94 240sx) but for around a track the rwd would have too much oversteer (but then the awd would then get under steer becouse of the fronts spinning) so what do u think of E.T.Cs

[Tobuk]

Well, all top end racing use RWD cars. They are the best for handling because they don't understeer (granted, they often oversteer, but that's not as bad as understeer).

Also, all the top end drag cars are RWD, but that's only when you get to insane power levels.

AWD simply owns for traction, period. It'll beat any FWD/RWD cars from a dig assuming power levels are similar. Yes, a moderate AWD sports car will handle alot better than a moderate RWD sports car. And driving in non-perfect conditions, like rain/snow/ice, you will love AWD.

Also, weight differences are not extreme, and can certainly be made up for with minor mods. Also, once you really start to modify the car to achieve some nice power, AWD will allow you to keep traction where FWD/RWD will have it's limits.

I'm personally an AWD lover. I've driven my bros old '94 325is and his new '00 SLK320 AMG, and the hole no traction thing gets old. I'm also certainly growing tired of my FWD Eclipse. Boost owns my traction BAD. (From a role I'm good to go though, :))

So AWD is nicer IMO. But again, only until you get to top end racing. Then it's all RWD.

[Tobuk]

Heh, I just randomly saw this video on StreetFire literally 30 seconds after seeing this thread and making that last post.

Basically, in this video, 2WD owns the straights, but 4WD rules corners and corner exits (more grip to get on the gas more and get out of the corner faster)

4WD vs 2WD Races. It's a good watch.
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/67ac6179-caa8-41c7-930c-98a100abc385.htm

[mugan23]

well i would get a rwd front engine car no matter what cuz i luv the oversteer but how come a car like the evo will own the 300zx on a track and the evo i think has 270hp and the 300zx is 300hp (i know the 300zx is heavy but it also has a twin turbo so the spooling up should not be a big problem and it probbably has low end hp over the evo's 4 banger

[Tobuk]

Actually the twin turbo setup hurts spool time. Twin turbo cars tend to have a lot of high RPM power. This was avoided somewhat by the Supra, which has sequential turbos. A smaller one for low RPM torque, and a bigger one for high RPM power.

An EVO might be able to beat a 300ZX because of the distance put between the cars at launch, and the weight does factor in. I do know however, that the 2.0L 4G63 engine in an EVO has a ton of power up top. I know because I have the same engine and a turbo that is barely smaller than an EVO turbo, :)

[pbasil1]

RWD is better for drag racing, but in almost all other departments... AWD is the winner. It corners much better, because you can heavily power through a turn, where as rwd would just spin out.


I love AWD! drag racing doesnt appeal to me much at al, but track racing and autocross!! IM IN!

[mugan23]

i once saw this 500hp supra go against a 430hp r32 and the r32 had a stutter box on it so the launch was near perfect it beat the supra by like 1 car length thats were i started thinking that the awd system is better for drag be couse the supra may have had all the power but it was having a hard time getting the power to the road cuz it took off sideways

[pbasil1]

i once saw this 500hp supra go against a 430hp r32 and the r32 had a stutter box on it so the launch was near perfect it beat the supra by like 1 car length thats were i started thinking that the awd system is better for drag be cause the supra may have had all the power but it was having a hard time getting the power to the road cuz it took off sideways
Thats true... stock for stock yes... But if you look at top fuel, they use rwd with very advanced drag suspensions and have no problems launching... There is no single best system out there for anything... As this topic is pointing out, certain things do better at one thing than another. RWD is truely better thatn AWD at drag racing with a drag setup rear suspension. AWD is truely better at handling.

[Malaziel]

Tobuk said that all top end racers use RWD but this isn't entirely true. The best time attack car in the world right now is the AWD Cyber Evo. It really depends on the application and driver.

[pbasil1]

Tobuk said that all top end racers use RWD but this isn't entirely true. The best time attack car in the world right now is the AWD Cyber Evo. It really depends on the application and driver.Yes thats right! EVO... recognize!!! I love evos.... but anyways, what drivetrain to use depends on the application its being used for...

[mugan23]

well i think it does comedown to the driver and the setup because i have also seen some high-powered evos eat the dust to 250hp truenos on touge so the driver and tech are the most important things (and of course a good platform is good too lol)

[Malaziel]

With equal drivers and equally tuned suspension a 250hp trueno would have no chance against a 400hp Evo. Not around a track or at drag. The trueno is lighter but not that much lighter. I think someone may have been reading to much Initial D.

[mugan23]

no the damn evo had 320hp (i think u read to much into high powered evo)
and i think the evo had a stock suspension

[pbasil1]

no the damn evo had 320hp (i think u read to much into high powered evo)
and i think the evo had a stock suspension

The stock suspensions in the EVO is still a very tight and respnsive suspension! It out runs most corvettes, some porches and almost all other cars sub $80k

But a 320hp evo gettin rocked by a trueno, the driver must have really sucked.

[Malaziel]

I assumed since you said high powered Evo that it would have somewhere in that range as a stock Evo IX has 286 horsepower and you can get them up to 320 after investing about $1500 into them. I can believe that a 250 horsepower trueno with custom suspension could beat a 320 horsepower Evo. As they weight about 1000 pounds less than the Evo.

[SpookedJunglist]

All i gotta say is formula one....

If they use RWD then it wins. Granted to prevent oversteer you need over 3gs of downforce. It still wins :D

[pbasil1]

They probably didnt use AWD becuase of the powerloss from the extra transfercase, and also its a little more to go wrong in a high endurance race. Plus it just adds weight...

Though you have a point there. With as much down force as a F1 car, you could probably still haul ass w/ FWD! lol

[terracide99]

personally, i'm a AWD person; i like the the sense of control one gets while driving an AWD car. however, for those that like to do things cars weren't meant to do, i.e. drifting, then a FR is a must. not to mention that any FR that cost north of $30k usually comes with traction control nowdays; it'll give the car traction similar to an AWD, even if the driver got a lead foot

[SpookedJunglist]

They probably didnt use AWD becuase of the powerloss from the extra transfercase, and also its a little more to go wrong in a high endurance race. Plus it just adds weight...

Though you have a point there. With as much down force as a F1 car, you could probably still haul ass w/ FWD! lol

Every point you pointed out in the first part of your post is why F1 will not use AWD and definately not FWD. Slow speeds and oversteer can help you turn where as full throttle on a FWD car cause undesteer. RWD is the way to go on a track car.

Then again look at the best made road cars and you have a 10 time track proven cars. I am talking about the honda cars that has won the world challenge racing [speed world challenge] title ten seasons in a row. This is the part that people point out that the cars in these races are limited by rules and regulations. Well those rules and regulations put weight into the cars that win in these classes. If you win the season they look at the car and add power robbing restrictions to the car so that it cant run as fast as they did the year before. The cars may add forced induction if needed to make the car competitive. Honda/acura never needed this because their cars handle so well out of the box. Honda has always been very competitive at handling. Honda also knows how to make engines, look at the indianapolis 500. Honda took the pole and placed 1st all the way through last place last year. Guess honda knows how to make engines as well. Honda has not won the claim to fame in drag racing. but maybe they are not trying hard enough.
I personally don't care that much about drag racing. I have always been a canyon carver. The most recent time i did try and win a drag race I got a fist in the face for winning. No glory in winning a street race. Someone still owes me 20 bucks ;).

I find it funny that in a real world type of tracdk race like the speed vision world challenge. that honda has won the last ten world cup championships. Especially with the penaltys for winning a race. I think winning first place adds 25kg to your car. And realtime acura has one the last ten world cup championships. I honestly got my del sol because it was light and fun to drive on curvy roads. This is the same reason why I bought my 93 integra that was stolen from me. I love twisty roads. The del sol really takes the curvy roads like they are nothing. The only other cars that i think can handle curves like mey del sol are the lotus elise and the toyota mr2. I bet a well modified pontiac fiero could handle its own if it could keep from catching on fire ;)

Still overall. in a open racing enviroment like F1 RWD performance has proven itself. A FWD car would loose. A AWD car would loose as well. Downforce and a perfect suspension is all that a RWD car needs to make a perfect car. Speed visions world challenge does not allow for major suspension geometry changes and that is why the 3 series BMWs are not number 1. Maybe they are to busy making the cars comfortable for their drivers. Honda makes one hell of a handling car. That is why i like them. I still think it is stupid trying to drag race with american muscle in a honda. Though a well equiped volvo would make for a nice corvette killer. I would love to take a todler in a car seat out and pull up next to a corvette with a loser and his trophy wife. rev my unsuspecting volvos 700hp turbocharged engine. And then smoke him with my baby flipping him off as we leave him in the dust. Then his trophy wife will wonder about his macho car and how he just had his arse handed to him by a volvy that had a baby on board....
Come on any car that is put into the hands of a racer can turn any modern car into a insane grocery getter that will have avery corvette and viper owner yelling WTF. With that I am just rambling at how some cars are made better than others. I personally love the fact that my car makes 30+ MPG witha leaking head gasket that i am not worried about. Honda motors are so good at taking punishment. I still ride my car like there is no tommorow. I just passed emissions with the leaking headgasket.

My favorite road to go on in phoenix is very winding. I have to drive 25 until i reach the curves just so i dont catch up with the slow people in front of me. I get people riding on my tail right up untill the point where i floor it and show them that they cant hang with my 2000 pound car with less than 120 HP. I have left so many cars behind me at this road. The only people who can keep up only have two wheels and are most likely there for the same reason as me. my del sol understeers under throttle but if i get into trouble I let gop of the gas and something odd happens. the tail end of my car slipps out from under me and my car corners. That is what i love about my car. I still am thinking my next car is going to be mid engine RWD. That has been proven to be the best. Either a MR2 or a elise/exige is next.

[apavlov13]

So far, the disadvantages mentioned for RWD were oversteer under throttle, and poor traction(with non-drag suspension and tires). An F1 car has massive downforce to counter the oversteer, and doesn't have to start from a standstill all that often, so traction should be a problem.

BTW, spooked, a week ago I picke up a MK2 VW Jetta. It weighs 2200 pounds with 100hp from the factory. I think even today's peformance cars are packed with so much insulation and trim to make it look and feel seamless, that most are overweight. I have a 4-door sedan (slightly bigger than my bro's 98 civic) that weight 2200lbs! I also get 30mpg.

Oh, and I'd fix that head gasket if I were you. Just because honda engines can take a beating doesn't mean they should. ;)

[Malaziel]

Its true. Todays cars are whales. Tons of extra crap in them like 60 pounds to much sound dampening material. As Spooked said in a totally unrestricted environment RWD is the best you can get. However for just a daily driven track car the edge is going to go to AWD most of the time.

[Remonster]

By oversteer under throttle, I assume you mean drifting :D since when was that a con? lmao.

EDIT: apavlov, a perfect example of what you're saying is the Gen V GTI. The original as you pointed out had 100HP and weighed 2200lbs, the Gen V has 200HP (197) and weighs nearly 3200lbs so it has gained a ton of weight since the original. Doubling the horsepower may keep its power to weight ratio in check but there isn't much you can do to make a heavy car handle as well as one half its wieght, lol.

[terracide99]

under most circumstances, grip usually is faster than drift; not to mention your everyday driver probably will wet their pants when that happens. i for one don't want my car to start oversteering when i'm cornering between two trucks at 80-90mph. drifting is most useful on turns with small radius and/or large angle, plus a higher entry speed on those turns. another con about drifting is that it usually cause more wear & tear on tires than grip

another pro for AWD is that it is more lenient to the everyday driver. for FR cars, the driver must step on the gas with care, especially during unfavorable road conditions. that is even more true for turbocharged cars cause the sudden increase in torque when the turbo kicks in can cause the car to loose control for the unexpected/unexperienced driver

[SpookedJunglist]

under most circumstances, grip usually is faster than drift; not to mention your everyday driver probably will wet their pants when that happens. i for one don't want my car to start oversteering when i'm cornering between two trucks at 80-90mph. drifting is most useful on turns with small radius and/or large angle, plus a higher entry speed on those turns. another con about drifting is that it usually cause more wear & tear on tires than grip

another pro for AWD is that it is more lenient to the everyday driver. for FR cars, the driver must step on the gas with care, especially during unfavorable road conditions. that is even more true for turbocharged cars cause the sudden increase in torque when the turbo kicks in can cause the car to loose control for the unexpected/unexperienced driver

I love my torque steer...It usually scares the racer next to me. As for torque steer on a winding road. not good. I tend to keep my engine in a low gear at about 5000 RPM so that i can accelerate when needed.

[legoman786]

Ever since I got the oil change, my trucks engine hasn't been putting out much torque than it used to. I could peel out on a set of brand new tires. Now, I'll be lucky if I get off the line as quick as I used to.

I love my 2200lb. truck to death, and I love the handling in it. If you guys think FWD has understeer, try cornering in my truck at 40 mph. :D