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Unread 03-19-2014, 11:59 AM   #1
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Default Need help choosing new sub system

I just discovered this site through ocn.net, and figured I'd ask my questions here.

So I want to get a new sub, amp and box for my car, I've been looking around for awhile and came up with what I thought might be good for me, but after looking around on this site I'm not so sure anymore, so I decided to ask for help.

First off I should say that I don't need ridiculous amounts of bass like some people do, but I want a substantial upgrade from what I currently have. I listen to rock, and progressive metal/metal; stuff like Dream Theatre, Audioslave and Metallica. I also listen to classic rock as well like Zeppelin, Rush etc. I currently have a 10" Sony Xplod with a cheapo 300W Pioneer amp, and I've been having multiple problems with it with the amp overheating etc. and decided I want more bass anyways.

I was looking at getting a 10" Alpine R dual 2-ohm and a Hifonics BRX-1200.1d (mono-block) amp, and then finding a nice ported box for it. Is this a good combo for me? Or is there something better out there for around the same price? And will a ported box (whether pre-fabricated or custom built) or a sealed box be better?

Note: I live in Canada, is there any good retailers that offer good prices here? I've been looking on Sonicelectronix.com since even with the extra Canadian duties tend to be cheaper than places I found in Canada, but maybe there are better Canadian retailers?

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Unread 03-19-2014, 04:10 PM   #2
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For that type of music I would definitely go sealed single or dual 10" sub. I wouldn't touch a hifonics product with a 10 foot pole though.

What kind of budget are you looking at for the total install?
What vehicle is this going into?
Where are you at in canada? (sonic electronix is a good retailer though and one of the cheapest down here)
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Unread 03-19-2014, 05:14 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by tofunater View Post
For that type of music I would definitely go sealed single or dual 10" sub. I wouldn't touch a hifonics product with a 10 foot pole though.

What kind of budget are you looking at for the total install?
What vehicle is this going into?
Where are you at in canada? (sonic electronix is a good retailer though and one of the cheapest down here)
Thanks for the reply!

The setup I was looking at with the Type R and Hifonics was about $700 CAD with taxes in, and I would like to stay around there, maybe a bit more if there is something in particular that's much better for only a bit more. This system will be going in a 2004 Grand Am GT that I have already replaced front and rear speakers with Pioneers and have a nice new Pioneer headunit, and I have already bypassed the factory Monsoon amp, if that's applicable. Also I live in southern Ontario.

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Unread 03-22-2014, 06:00 PM   #4
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So do you have any recommendations of what I should get for my budget? I appreciate any feedback, thanks!

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Unread 03-23-2014, 06:48 PM   #5
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The type R can sound pretty good in a nice box. And i would suggest upgrading to the 12". I totally agree with tofu. Keep it in a sealed box, i would suggest between 1.1-1.4 cu/ft for a 12" type R. No more, no less, and atleast made of 3/4" MDF.

As for an amp, its a general rule of thumb that the amp will cost 2-3x what your driver cost if you want equality "quality". Hifonics are known as very dirty sounding amps. They are great for the guys that just want booming bass, and have little or no care for how it sounds. It wont sound too great with the tight double bass and such found in most rock/metal.

My amp recommendations, most recommended first:

Zapco: Top quality manufacturer, known for very high end amps.
WoofersEtc.com - ST-1KDM - Zapco Monoblock 1000W RMSClass D Low Range Amplifier

Image Dynamics:Very well known high end company, more known for speakers, but good amps too.
WoofersEtc.com - Q600.1- Image Dynamics 1-Channel 600 Watt Amplifier

Diamond:Very well rounded company, high quality amps and a great spread of speakers.
WoofersEtc.com - D600.1 - Diamond Audio Monoblock 600W RMS Class D Amplifier

CDT: Most known for component speakers, but has a decent amp for budget minded people.
WoofersEtc.com - SQA-1000 - CDT Audio Amp 1 Channel 1100 Watt Amplifier

The links i posted aren't necessarily the best prices, i just used that site to link the amps i would recommend. See if you can find them locally or on Canadian websites. Other wise i know some web stores here in the us will ship to Canada.
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Unread 03-23-2014, 10:18 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbasil1 View Post
The type R can sound pretty good in a nice box. And i would suggest upgrading to the 12". I totally agree with tofu. Keep it in a sealed box, i would suggest between 1.1-1.4 cu/ft for a 12" type R. No more, no less, and atleast made of 3/4" MDF.

As for an amp, its a general rule of thumb that the amp will cost 2-3x what your driver cost if you want equality "quality". Hifonics are known as very dirty sounding amps. They are great for the guys that just want booming bass, and have little or no care for how it sounds. It wont sound too great with the tight double bass and such found in most rock/metal.

My amp recommendations, most recommended first:

Zapco: Top quality manufacturer, known for very high end amps.
WoofersEtc.com - ST-1KDM - Zapco Monoblock 1000W RMSClass D Low Range Amplifier

Image Dynamics:Very well known high end company, more known for speakers, but good amps too.
WoofersEtc.com - Q600.1- Image Dynamics 1-Channel 600 Watt Amplifier

Diamond:Very well rounded company, high quality amps and a great spread of speakers.
WoofersEtc.com - D600.1 - Diamond Audio Monoblock 600W RMS Class D Amplifier

CDT: Most known for component speakers, but has a decent amp for budget minded people.
WoofersEtc.com - SQA-1000 - CDT Audio Amp 1 Channel 1100 Watt Amplifier

The links i posted aren't necessarily the best prices, i just used that site to link the amps i would recommend. See if you can find them locally or on Canadian websites. Other wise i know some web stores here in the us will ship to Canada.
Thank you for the very informative reply!

I looked around on a few sites, and the only site I could find the Image Dynamics amp was on Sonic Electronix and the other amps I couldn't find anywhere, except where you posted them, which it seems they ship to Canada, including items that have free shipping . Also you think I should get a 12" vs the 10" sub? I heard that 10" has a tighter sound and is better for the music I listen too, maybe that's wrong, idk, I'm fairly new to this so I'm open to suggestions.

IF I were to go with the Image Dynamics, you don't think the sub (1000W RMS) would be underpowered by the 600W RMS amp? I've heard about under-powering, I'm not sure on the exact effects of it or if it would occur in this instance, again I'm open to reasoning/suggestions. One more quick question (sorry), I have a 4-gauge wiring kit that I'm currently using, but it only came with a 20A (AGU style I believe) fuse, will I need to upgrade this to something bigger for the new setup?

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Unread 03-25-2014, 03:38 PM   #7
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4gauge wire is fine, but yes get a new fuse, 100A+. As for under powering goes, its almost a myth. What most people understand as under power is actually known as clipping, or square waving the speaker. If your amp is not powerful enough for the speaker your using, and the volume you want, you can turn the gain up to the point where the signal becomes extremely degraded, and actually cuts off the peak of the sign. Do a google search and understand what clipping is.

Also, keep in mind there is no standard to testing power out put of an amplifier. So company A could say an amp is 1000w, where as company B would say the very same amp is only 300w. Being that Image dynamics, or all of the others i listed are great companies, they are much tighter on their testing standards, and give a more true rating. Additionally, power isnt everything, the the op amps and dac's used in these digital amps vary, and the better the quality components used, the best sound they will produce.

As for 12" vs 10", again a myth... Sorta. This depends on the quality of speaker. Its only true when when the motor structure of the speaker is the same size, and you change the cone size. Most cheap speaker companies will use the same voice coil/magnet for a 10" and 12" speaker to save in manufacturing cost. And in that case, the 12" obviously has a disadvantage, the cone is bigger and has more air resistance, and weighs more too. But any good company will have a proportional sized motor for the cone being used. Easy way to check is look at the voice coil diameter, and magnet weight. The bigger the speaker the bigger those values should be. I know of many audiophile level, and SQ competition systems that use 15" subs. So the idea that the bigger speaker is slower, is a myth.

As i have explained to many many others here and else where, the most influential component in your sub stage, is the box. The box plays a huge role in how the sub acts and performs. And there are pros and cons to all box types. And you can probably take what you have heard about ported vs sealed vs bandpass vs infinite baffle and throw it out the window too.

Again, i would recommend for your budget, perceived skill/knowledge level, and music type, i would stick with a mid sized sealed box. For a 12" sub, thats about 1.1-1.3 cu/ft gross.
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Last edited by pbasil1; 03-25-2014 at 03:41 PM.

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Unread 03-25-2014, 06:59 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by pbasil1 View Post
4gauge wire is fine, but yes get a new fuse, 100A+. As for under powering goes, its almost a myth. What most people understand as under power is actually known as clipping, or square waving the speaker. If your amp is not powerful enough for the speaker your using, and the volume you want, you can turn the gain up to the point where the signal becomes extremely degraded, and actually cuts off the peak of the sign. Do a google search and understand what clipping is.

Also, keep in mind there is no standard to testing power out put of an amplifier. So company A could say an amp is 1000w, where as company B would say the very same amp is only 300w. Being that Image dynamics, or all of the others i listed are great companies, they are much tighter on their testing standards, and give a more true rating. Additionally, power isnt everything, the the op amps and dac's used in these digital amps vary, and the better the quality components used, the best sound they will produce.

As for 12" vs 10", again a myth... Sorta. This depends on the quality of speaker. Its only true when when the motor structure of the speaker is the same size, and you change the cone size. Most cheap speaker companies will use the same voice coil/magnet for a 10" and 12" speaker to save in manufacturing cost. And in that case, the 12" obviously has a disadvantage, the cone is bigger and has more air resistance, and weighs more too. But any good company will have a proportional sized motor for the cone being used. Easy way to check is look at the voice coil diameter, and magnet weight. The bigger the speaker the bigger those values should be. I know of many audiophile level, and SQ competition systems that use 15" subs. So the idea that the bigger speaker is slower, is a myth.

As i have explained to many many others here and else where, the most influential component in your sub stage, is the box. The box plays a huge role in how the sub acts and performs. And there are pros and cons to all box types. And you can probably take what you have heard about ported vs sealed vs bandpass vs infinite baffle and throw it out the window too.

Again, i would recommend for your budget, perceived skill/knowledge level, and music type, i would stick with a mid sized sealed box. For a 12" sub, thats about 1.1-1.3 cu/ft gross.
Another very informative post, thank you, rep+. So do you think if I were to go with the 600W Image Dynamics, the 12" Type R dual 2-ohm (and wire it for 1-ohm to the amp), and a box like this https://www.woofersetc.com/p-3520-sq...ealed-box.aspx I'd have a pretty good setup? Will I need polyfil for the box (which I can't seem to find on woofersetc.com)? And also woofersetc.com only seems to have 80A agu fuses, nothing bigger, will 80A be enough?

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Unread 03-25-2014, 08:09 PM   #9
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Yup, that box would be fine. And I think you could get away with an 80A fuse. If it blows, your local audio shop or even radioshack will have replacements. As for polyfill, its nothing more than pillow stuffing. Grab a bag of it at your local fabric store for like $3 lol, stuff about 1lb in the box. You almost cant put too much in there.
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Unread 03-25-2014, 09:34 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by pbasil1 View Post
Yup, that box would be fine. And I think you could get away with an 80A fuse. If it blows, your local audio shop or even radioshack will have replacements. As for polyfill, its nothing more than pillow stuffing. Grab a bag of it at your local fabric store for like $3 lol, stuff about 1lb in the box. You almost cant put too much in there.
Ok I think I'm gonna go for that setup then, thank you for all your help, I greatly appreciate it . I guess you wouldn't happen to know if woofersetc.com includes Canadian duties in their prices at checkout or if that would come as a surprise when they arrive at my door, would you?

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