kevintesta

Hello,

I am having problems with my car these are symptoms -
vauxhall astra design twinport mk v(5) 2005 1.6 has done 70K miles


Failed on MOT all emissions (See link)
http://postimage.org/image/shio5k08b/
- Running very lean
- ECU putting tons of fuel in because of lean running so its eating tons of fuel
- White intermittent smoke from exhaust only seen myself once

Garage number one says (After MOT fail on emissions) -

The o2 sensor gone and needs a new CAT. (£550)

Garage number two says (After emissions fail and white smoke)

- Needs new engine (Piston rings gone) (£1500)


What I have done

- New sparks
- New air-filter
- Various chemical cleans (RedX, Injector Cleaner, Cataclean)
- Only one error code now cleared and not returned (Running lean)
-Linked to laptop no obvious problems

Possible problem
- the o2 sensor might not be functioning correctly seems to take some times a few seconds to cycle further testing will be done on weekend although this does not explain white smoke.

Points to note

- Car idle perfect
- Car drives fine
- Using lots of fuel
-No signs of blow headgasket

When the car was running I put my hand under exaust fumes and it was so hot it burnt
when the car was blowing white smoke I put my hand in same place and it was just warm air, I could also feel flicks of liquid got a white piece of paper and the liquid was clear like water.


Any suggestions as to what could be causing white smoke.

Originally thought maybe the cat is dead but this would not cause smoke.
Then thought maybe its unburned fuel but this would be black smoke.


http://postimage.org/image/shio5k08b/

Mr Car Guy

Hi

White smoke that lasts after the engine has reached operating temperature and the exhaust system is hot will indicate coolant in the combustion chamber.

Antifreeze will damage both the catalytic convertors and the oxygen sensors.

You need to have a compression test done and the spark plugs examined for the presence of coolant. A cooling system pressure test with the spark plugs removed can sometimes show coolant getting into the cylinders.

Possibilities include head gasket failure, cracked head or block.

A bad cat will not smoke white running lean or rich. Running rich you will see black smoke, burning oil will be blue. With "some" oil burning problems the smoke will appear white but is actually light blue.

If it is burning oil the cat can fail but that does not show up on a scanner. Have you had a shop use a scanner to confirm that it is running lean?

__________________

1999 AWD Jimmy
1995 AWD Jimmy - RIP, 1989 AWD Jimmy - RIP

I try to learn from other peoples mistakes that I gave advice to.

kevintesta

I hooked it upto a laptop and could see it was running lean, because of this the ECU is chucking fuel in causing it to run rich if that makes sense.


If the Head gasket is gone would the white smoke not be constant additionally would the car not run bad?

Mr Car Guy

A bad head gasket can leak enough in the beginning to show up in the exhaust but not be enough to upset the idle or running.

I would confirm that you are not dealing with coolant in the exhaust before I would go to any effort to figure out the lean running. The O2 sensors will be shot and any reading from them will be erroneous.

If the engine is not using coolant no matter how rich or lean you should not be seeing white smoke. Be sure to understand that in cold weather you WILL see condensation as the hot exhaust is expelled into the cold moist air. Oil smoke will tend to last and linger in the air, condensation will usually rise and dissipate shortly.

__________________

1999 AWD Jimmy
1995 AWD Jimmy - RIP, 1989 AWD Jimmy - RIP

I try to learn from other peoples mistakes that I gave advice to.

kevintesta

Ok thanks

Will look into this, my only problem is apart from the white smoke it shows no signs of bad gasket

- no milky stuff
- spark plugs where fine
- oil seems fine

Also I fear going to the garage as I don't have one I trust and saying can you tell me if the gasket is gone cost about £700 they will mostly likely just say yes.

Mr Car Guy

I understand your hesitation to ask if the head gasket is gone.

In the very early stages of a slow head gasket failure it can show up as white smoke but not show much in the way of coolant in the cylinders or oil or even that the coolant is getting low. It can be very difficult to give an exact diagnosis at this stage. What I would do is to shut the engine off when up to temp and remove the spark plugs. I don't know the engine that is in your car but if it is at all possible to see into the plug holes you may observe coolant.

While it's cooling down it is likely that if the head gasket is gone or a crack in the head that it will leak in a cylinder while sitting. You may even see steam coming out of a plug hole when you remove a plug.

I would let it sit overnight and check it in the morning. I have a length of speaker wire soldered onto a tiny dash bulb. I lower this into the plug hole and I can see if coolant is on the piston top or not. Of course this is only possible with an engine arrangement that gives you a good view of the plug holes. Alternately I use my borescope.

__________________

1999 AWD Jimmy
1995 AWD Jimmy - RIP, 1989 AWD Jimmy - RIP

I try to learn from other peoples mistakes that I gave advice to.

kevintesta

New update -


I have some picture to follow.

While the car was idleing about an hour on and off. I noticed a large puddle on the floor by exhaust after smelling it, it just seems to be water but as I understand it no fluid should be coming from exhaust. This was accompanied by small amount of white smoke.*



Checked the coolant and doesn't seem to be going down going to buy a test kit from*eBay*to check the gasket.


idle only results

View image: 5

View image: 2

View image: 1

Mr Car Guy

I wouldn't get too caught up in scan results until you confirm whether or not you have a cooling system problem.

An engine warming up in cold weather will create a hot humid exhaust cloud, but it should dissipate fairly quickly. Water will drip out and leave a puddle. Depending on how hot the entire exhaust system is and how long it's been running the condensation will exist or not. After a good hard run the exhaust should be hot and dried out and you should be left with only a noticeable presence of moisture in the exhaust.

If you have coolant in the exhaust you may smell a sweet odor as a result.

__________________

1999 AWD Jimmy
1995 AWD Jimmy - RIP, 1989 AWD Jimmy - RIP

I try to learn from other peoples mistakes that I gave advice to.