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Unread 07-31-2006, 03:36 PM   #1
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Default Hybrid flaws

Hybrids are supposed to be so envirnmentally friendly correct? True they have almost no emissions and get wonderful gas mileage (in the city) but they have one major flaw. The batteries. What happens when you scrap the car? What happens when you replace the batteries? Are they going into a landfill? If so thats some pollution. Ok.....

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Unread 07-31-2006, 03:43 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdub998
Hybrids are supposed to be so envirnmentally friendly correct? True they have almost no emissions and get wonderful gas mileage (in the city) but they have one major flaw. The batteries. What happens when you scrap the car? What happens when you replace the batteries? Are they going into a landfill? If so thats some pollution. Ok.....

Discuss
Hybrids are terribly overrated. The same kind of economy can be had with a normilly aspirated gasoline engine. Read the "Performance Through Efficiency" post in the Engines section. Here's an example:

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A grooved head I shipped to Florida is finally getting dialed in. '89 LeBaron, 2.5 S-50 turbo, Spearco IC, +40 injectors, & custom cal.

Stock mileage was 23/27 mpg. He is now seeing 35/42 mpg!

Stock HP was 152 crank. He isn't quite sure where he's at, but it's in the neighborhood of 400 HP!

HE'S RUNNING 30 PSI BOOST ON 93 OCTANE PUMP GAS WITH ONLY WATER INJECTION ADDED FOR DETONATION CONTROL!!!!
While the hybrid vehicle may be getting better mileage, it's definately not putting out 400hp, either! It was later posted that his engine was running pig rich. After a custom calibration aimed at fuel efficiency, he is pushing 45mpg city and 52mpg highway while still producing >300 horsepower.

About the battery issue in the cars, surely they don't use lead-acid batteries. They would be horribly heavy and like you said, a pain to dispose of.

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Unread 07-31-2006, 03:47 PM   #3
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Wouldn't it also save more gas if a car that averages 13 mpg used a lighter foot and got 16 mpg?
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Unread 07-31-2006, 03:52 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by cdub998
Wouldn't it also save more gas if a car that averages 13 mpg used a lighter foot and got 16 mpg?
Of course it would. That's exactly how I have to drive my car. It gets 16 with most people driving but I squeeze 20 out of it.

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Unread 07-31-2006, 04:39 PM   #5
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Hybrid technology is more efficient than normal technology in that it has a lot less energy loss in getting the energy to the wheels. In response to Pinhead grooving the engine on a hybrid will provide similar efficiency results as a non-hybrid car. As far as horsepower, Get bigger and better electric motors. One can find 100 hp pancake electric motors. Put one on each wheel and you have 400 hp plus AWD.

Hybrids also respond the same way to lead foots. If you don't drive them like a nut case you see nice mileage. If you do decide to be speed racer every time you step into the car, mileage will go down.

As far as batteries go, Most hybrids use NiMH. Ive seen some true EVs use lead acid or lithium, but they aren't common. When disposing of these batteries they should always be recycled, and most are. Companies like Toyota even pay you $200 to recycle them.

Also comming up is the plug in hybrid. A hybrid can run about 25 miles on battery power alone, and this is about how far the average american drives a day. With plug in hybrids upi plug it into the power grid and the batteries can be charged with out ever using the engine, thus resulting in far greater gas mileage.

Last edited by The Bartender Paradox; 07-31-2006 at 04:42 PM.

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Unread 07-31-2006, 05:04 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by The Bartender Paradox

Hybrid technology is more efficient than normal technology in that it has a lot less energy loss in getting the energy to the wheels. In response to Pinhead grooving the engine on a hybrid will provide similar efficiency results as a non-hybrid car. As far as horsepower, Get bigger and better electric motors. One can find 100 hp pancake electric motors. Put one on each wheel and you have 400 hp plus AWD.

Hybrids also respond the same way to lead foots. If you don't drive them like a nut case you see nice mileage. If you do decide to be speed racer every time you step into the car, mileage will go down.

As far as batteries go, Most hybrids use NiMH. Ive seen some true EVs use lead acid or lithium, but they aren't common. When disposing of these batteries they should always be recycled, and most are. Companies like Toyota even pay you $200 to recycle them.

Also comming up is the plug in hybrid. A hybrid can run about 25 miles on battery power alone, and this is about how far the average american drives a day. With plug in hybrids upi plug it into the power grid and the batteries can be charged with out ever using the engine, thus resulting in far greater gas mileage.
Horsepower has to come from somewhere. The laws of physics still apply, 1HP=746 watts. So to get that 400hp electric motor(s) you have to produce 29.84kw of power. What produces that power? The power comes from a generator that is ran by... the gasoline engine. The batteries only spread the horsepower usage over a broader timespan. Nothing is 100% efficient, including generators and alternators. More losses are introduced through these systems.

One rule that all too often overlooked: There is efficiency in simplicity. The more you convert energy from one form to another the more you introduce losses. In a hybrid, the power is converted from chemical (gasoline/diesel fuel) to thermal to mechanical (expanding nitrogen pushes on the piston) to electrical (through the alternator) and then back to mechanical (through the electric motors). There are conventional diesels that get as good or better mileage than production hybrid vehicles. That's why I say hybrids are overrated. They're just another "hip" technology that is selling because it's been advertised right.

The plug in hybrid does nothing to reduce overall fuel consumption when looking at the big picture. It may reduce an individual's fuel use, but that electricity has to come from somewhere. The majority of electricity is produced by burning fossil fuels. Once other generators are in place (geothermal, hydroelectric, wind farms, etc.) to replace fossil fuels, the plug in car will be a great benefit. If you argue that electricity is cheaper than gasoline, just wait until the gasoline cars are phased out and everyone has to plug their cars in. Demand will rise and you'll see electric companies making love to oil companies.

If I owned a hybrid, I would do my darndest to make the gasoline portion of the car more efficient. Add the grooves/high compression/PowreLynz, etc. to the gas engine in a hybrid.

I'm going to be one of the few running a car on water within the next year or so...

Last edited by Pinhead; 07-31-2006 at 05:14 PM.

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Unread 07-31-2006, 05:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinhead
If I owned one, I would do my darndest to make the gasoline portion of the car more efficient. Add the grooves/high compression/PowreLynz, etc. to the gas engine in a hybrid.

The plug in hybrid does nothing to reduce overall fuel consumption. It may reduce an individual's fuel use, but that electricity has to come from somewhere. The majority of electricity is produced by burning fossil fuels.

I'm going to be one of the few running a car on water...
Pollution from a power plant is a lot easier to control than pollution from thousands cars running arround. Also while almost 100% of cars are powered by fossil fuels, we get almost 33% of our power from nuclear, wind, hydroelectric and other sources.

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Unread 07-31-2006, 05:29 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinhead
Horsepower has to come from somewhere. The laws of physics still apply, 1HP=746 watts. So to get that 400hp electric motor(s) you have to produce 29.84kw of power. What produces that power? The power comes from a generator that is ran by... the gasoline engine. The batteries only spread the horsepower usage over a broader timespan. Nothing is 100% efficient, including generators and alternators. More losses are introduced through these systems.

One rule that all too often overlooked: There is efficiency in simplicity. The more you convert energy from one form to another the more you introduce losses. In a hybrid, the power is converted from chemical (gasoline/diesel fuel) to thermal to mechanical (expanding nitrogen pushes on the piston) to electrical (through the alternator) and then back to mechanical (through the electric motors). There are conventional diesels that get as good or better mileage than production hybrid vehicles. That's why I say hybrids are overrated. They're just another "hip" technology that is selling because it's been advertised right.

The plug in hybrid does nothing to reduce overall fuel consumption when looking at the big picture. It may reduce an individual's fuel use, but that electricity has to come from somewhere. The majority of electricity is produced by burning fossil fuels. Once other generators are in place (geothermal, hydroelectric, wind farms, etc.) to replace fossil fuels, the plug in car will be a great benefit. If you argue that electricity is cheaper than gasoline, just wait until the gasoline cars are phased out and everyone has to plug their cars in. Demand will rise and you'll see electric companies making love to oil companies.

If I owned a hybrid, I would do my darndest to make the gasoline portion of the car more efficient. Add the grooves/high compression/PowreLynz, etc. to the gas engine in a hybrid.

I'm going to be one of the few running a car on water within the next year or so...
Ding ding ding!

Finally I find people who feel the way I do!!

To bad perpetual motion is impossible, lol.
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Unread 07-31-2006, 10:38 PM   #9
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Also, there is no reason why the batteries cannot be recyled and used again if the car is being phased out.

Seconly, hybrids are nice for emmision reasons, but in the gas mile point of view, isn't always better than a normal car. MY mom owns a small Toyota Echo, which we figured out gets 45+ miles a gallon in the city with a couple induction additions, so normal cars can get good milage too. The most positive aspect of hybrids is the emmision status they have.
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Unread 08-01-2006, 11:07 PM   #10
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I'm pushni a healthy >26 MPG in the city on my truck. And that's even with the way I drive it! (See sig)
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