CarForum.net - Car Forums, Automotive News and Community
Home Gallery Register Calendar Members List

Go Back   CarForum.net - Car Forums, Automotive News and Community > General Car Discussion > General Automotive Discussion

Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools
Unread 10-27-2009, 04:19 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 136
Rep: 13 Gl@re is on a distinguished road
Default Survey: Ford leads domestic carmakers in reliability

Quote:
"Ford has secured its position as the only Detroit automaker with world-class reliability," Consumer Reports said in its annual car reliability survey, which was released during an Automotive Press Association luncheon today.
http://www.detnews.com/article/20091...in-reliability

Gl@re is offline Gl@re's Gallery  
Reply With Quote
Unread 10-27-2009, 04:37 PM   #2
Retired Staff
 
Retrospekt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 599
Rep: 67 Retrospekt will become famous soon enough
Default

Survey's are probably the least reliable source of anything in the world. They can be manipulated in ways most people aren't aware of. Anyone who's taken an advanced Statistics course will know what I'm talking about.

The words "Ford" and "reliability" just don't go together. Reliable Ford is an oxi-moron, except for the trucks.
__________________
Family Cars: (Bold is mine).

1998 Nissan 200sx SE | i4 1.6L | 83,000 miles | Green | Running 100% |

1996 Nissan Sentra | i4 1.6L | 122,000 miles |Black |
2001 Nissan Maxima | V6 3.0L | 94,000 miles | Black |
2010 Toyota Camry | i4 2.5L | 5,500 miles | Silver |
1993 Toyota MR2 | 2.0L i4 560HP | 26psi Boost | Unknown Mileage | White| Scary to drive

Retrospekt is offline  
Reply With Quote
Unread 10-27-2009, 05:53 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 136
Rep: 13 Gl@re is on a distinguished road
Default

They CAN be manipulated, but this on is from a reliable source... It's your opinion that ford and reliability don't go together, but the numbers show differently.

Gl@re is offline Gl@re's Gallery  
Reply With Quote
Unread 10-27-2009, 06:13 PM   #4
Hammond Hand Luggage
 
cluffenstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 2,704
Rep: 61 cluffenstein will become famous soon enough
Default

Um Yes, I haven't recieved said survey...
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by TestEcull
He may have ruined his cylinder walls and compression wings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wierdo124
Yeah. Should hold up fine, long as you don't drive like a primate.

cluffenstein is offline cluffenstein's Gallery  
Reply With Quote
Unread 10-27-2009, 07:47 PM   #5
Community Director
 
Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 7,602
Rep: 153 Mike has a spectacular aura aboutMike has a spectacular aura about
Default

I was just about to say, i think cluffenstein begs to differ.


You guys know my stance. Chevies and Pontiacs have never let me down, and Mercuries have. I've never had a Chevy in my family that we haven't owned up to 200k, and we've never put an engine in any of them. Minimal repairs (typical alternator around 150k, fuel pumps around the same, ball joints because of plowing, and trannies around 170k) and regular maintenance (plugs and wires when we get around to it, oil change every 3k, tranny and brake fluid flush every hundred thousand) and they seem to all run like champs. The Mercury my sister had went through 4 cracked heads in a total of about 60,000 miles. And she drives like a granny. Got a Pontiac and haven't had one problem other than the master cylinder and fuel pressure regulator.

I'll just leave this here...
__________________
"He shouted: 'You've won! Didn't you know?' I didn't, and it's about the nicest thing I've ever been told" -Bruce McLaren, 1968 Belgian Grand Prix
Read the rules! | DO NOT REPLY TO SPAM
2009 Pontiac G8 GT - 6.0L, 6AT - 95k miles | 1994 Chevy Blazer K5 - 350, 5MT - 140k miles | 2006 Mazda 3 S sedan - 2.3L, 5MT - 130k miles
Wife's Car: 2013 Chevy Volt - 70k miles
Bikes: 1979 Yamaha XS 750 | 1985 Honda Sabre 700


Mike is offline Mike's Gallery  
Reply With Quote
Unread 10-27-2009, 08:14 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 136
Rep: 13 Gl@re is on a distinguished road
Default

yes i know cluffenstein has had issues with his car, but the question is, is he of a minority? or a majority? If he had received this survey, his input would be one among many.

Gl@re is offline Gl@re's Gallery  
Reply With Quote
Unread 10-27-2009, 08:27 PM   #7
Retired Staff
 
Retrospekt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 599
Rep: 67 Retrospekt will become famous soon enough
Default

No source that doesn't specify how the survey was done is reliable to me. They could have used any of these techniques:

Voluntary Response Sample - Biased.
Convenience Sampling - Most likely biased.
Stratified Sample - Can be biased, depends on chance.
Simple Random Sample - The correct sample type. Takes more time and effort.

So all in all, Consumer Reports IS a relatively reliable source. BUT they are a reliable source that has failed to report how it performed the survey. 3 out of the 4 most popular sampling techniques can end up being biased. I chose not to trust that Consumer Reports is reliable enough that it took the time to perform a SRS (Simple Random Sample) without any kind of proof.

They have effectively made that article completely useless to anyone who has knowledge of statistics by not stating how the survey was performed.

Take to mind that I'm a huge Toyota fan, and I refuse to believe that, using an SRS, they got 18 while Honda got 8 and Ford got 4. The margin is far too wide.

Edit: I decided to read through and it looks like they did a Convenience Sample, only asking subscribers of their magazine of their opinions. This is a bad sampling method. Along with a convenience sample, it is also a voluntary sampling. They sent out questionnaire's to all of their subscribers, but only 1.4 million responded. The people that end up responding are usually part of a group with very strong opinions on either the positive side or the negative side.

So there. Consumer Reports, a source considered "reliable" used 2 out of 3 bad sampling methods and came no where near the good one.
__________________
Family Cars: (Bold is mine).

1998 Nissan 200sx SE | i4 1.6L | 83,000 miles | Green | Running 100% |

1996 Nissan Sentra | i4 1.6L | 122,000 miles |Black |
2001 Nissan Maxima | V6 3.0L | 94,000 miles | Black |
2010 Toyota Camry | i4 2.5L | 5,500 miles | Silver |
1993 Toyota MR2 | 2.0L i4 560HP | 26psi Boost | Unknown Mileage | White| Scary to drive

Last edited by Retrospekt; 10-27-2009 at 08:33 PM.

Retrospekt is offline  
Reply With Quote
Unread 10-28-2009, 12:45 AM   #8
Spah sappin' mah susp!
 
Kenny McCormick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Earth...I think
Posts: 3,271
Rep: 96 Kenny McCormick will become famous soon enough
Default

My Ford has proven quite the reliable old pickup. Nothing has broken on it that wouldn't break on any other marque with 260,000 miles and 24 years of abuse.
__________________
Tired Iron ain't got no time to wear out...

My rigs:

1985 Ford F150 | 4x2 | 300ci OHV inline six | 4-speed OD manual | 310K | No power brakes | Running 100% - It hasn't driven this good in 15 years!

1984 Ford F150 | 4x2 | 300ci six | granny four | 3.55 rear end | 210K | Brakes shot. Rear drums are doing most of the work. Not fit to drive due to that.
1997 Ford Explorer XLT | 4.0L Vulcan V6 | 5-speed automatic | shift-on-the-fly 4WD | 210,000 miles | Running 95% - Needs brakes on all four corners + bald tires
1989 Ford F150 | 300cid six...again | 5-speed | 4x4 | 160K | Needs brakes done as well. Oi!

Kenny McCormick is offline  
Reply With Quote
Unread 10-28-2009, 12:53 AM   #9
Hammond Hand Luggage
 
cluffenstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 2,704
Rep: 61 cluffenstein will become famous soon enough
Default

I think the focus was just built cheap. there are pins holding the weatherstripping in, and they don't stay in well... theres always a film of oil ontop of the valve cover because the oil filler cap doesn't fit right..
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by TestEcull
He may have ruined his cylinder walls and compression wings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wierdo124
Yeah. Should hold up fine, long as you don't drive like a primate.

cluffenstein is offline cluffenstein's Gallery  
Reply With Quote
Unread 10-28-2009, 03:36 AM   #10
Spah sappin' mah susp!
 
Kenny McCormick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Earth...I think
Posts: 3,271
Rep: 96 Kenny McCormick will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cluffenstein View Post
theres always a film of oil ontop of the valve cover because the oil filler cap doesn't fit right..

Mine wedges in when the engine's hot. Won't come off barring an act of god. When cold, however, mine spins right out.


Wierd fords are wierd.
__________________
Tired Iron ain't got no time to wear out...

My rigs:

1985 Ford F150 | 4x2 | 300ci OHV inline six | 4-speed OD manual | 310K | No power brakes | Running 100% - It hasn't driven this good in 15 years!

1984 Ford F150 | 4x2 | 300ci six | granny four | 3.55 rear end | 210K | Brakes shot. Rear drums are doing most of the work. Not fit to drive due to that.
1997 Ford Explorer XLT | 4.0L Vulcan V6 | 5-speed automatic | shift-on-the-fly 4WD | 210,000 miles | Running 95% - Needs brakes on all four corners + bald tires
1989 Ford F150 | 300cid six...again | 5-speed | 4x4 | 160K | Needs brakes done as well. Oi!

Kenny McCormick is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:32 AM.

Shogun Interactive Development Copyright 2015 Shogun Interactive Development. All rights reserved.