CarForum.net - Car Forums, Automotive News and Community
Home Gallery Register Calendar Members List

Go Back   CarForum.net - Car Forums, Automotive News and Community > General Car Discussion > General Automotive Discussion

Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools
Unread 02-11-2010, 05:17 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Republic of Britain
Posts: 114
Rep: 13 Flynn is on a distinguished road
Default Head Gaskit question

Okay, so we all know that driving an engine hard from cold is not a good idea. So what is the deal with cop cars, ambulances and fire trucks, cause I'm sure they don't get the chance to warm up before the throttle is opened! Could please someone explain to me?

Flynn is offline  
Reply With Quote
Unread 02-11-2010, 05:37 PM   #2
Hammond Hand Luggage
 
cluffenstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 2,704
Rep: 61 cluffenstein will become famous soon enough
Default

Actually, (And I meant to type this up.) Ford says as long as you wait 5 seconds-ish, you should be ok, even in hybrids and E85 vehicles.

The article

Quote:
Originally Posted by ford magazine Winter 2010
All it takes is a matter of seconds. "The myth that you should let your car idle for five to ten minutes before driving to protect the engine is completely false," says Brett Hinds, advanced engine design and development manager for Ford. Even at temperatures as low as -20 degrees, your gasoline engine has full lubrication and is ready to go within five seconds of ignition. For best warm-up and fuel economy, a vehicle should be driven as soon as it's ready, adds Hinds. Hybrid engines generally warm up at a rate similar to gas engines, according to Ford's hybrid chief engineer, Sherif Marakby, so the same principles apply. In all vehicles, the cabin and the windshield may take a bit longer than the engine to heat up, so don't forget your scarf.
~Sarah Tuff
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by TestEcull
He may have ruined his cylinder walls and compression wings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wierdo124
Yeah. Should hold up fine, long as you don't drive like a primate.

cluffenstein is offline cluffenstein's Gallery  
Reply With Quote
Unread 02-11-2010, 05:49 PM   #3
Retired Director
 
Gandalf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 1,489
Rep: 36 Gandalf is on a distinguished road
Default

Then why does my engine vibrate for about 40 seconds when it's cold?
__________________
Vehicles: 1993 240SX
1990 Katana 750

Gandalf is offline  
Reply With Quote
Unread 02-11-2010, 05:53 PM   #4
Veteran Member
 
Mr Car Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Surrey, BC, Canada
Posts: 2,052
Rep: 186 Mr Car Guy has a spectacular aura aboutMr Car Guy has a spectacular aura about
Default

Emergency vehicles are not exempt from this, it's the cost of needing to go right now! Often they don't keep the vehicles long enough to experience head gasket problems, or they just do them as needed.

And for the record, I've never suggest that you idle an engine, only that you drive it easy until it's up to temp. If you lived on the edge of the interstate and had to merge with high speed traffic with in seconds of starting up, then I would suggest idling it for a few minutes. It's true that moving parts are lubricated within seconds of start up, but the oil is thicker and takes longer to drain back to the oil pan from the head. High RPM pumps a lot of oil up their and cold oil moves slowly over cold engine parts and the oil may not get back to the oil pickup as fast as it gets pumped up to the head. Get the right conditions and you get a dead engine. The thermal expansion of an aluminum head on a cast iron block is much greater than an older head gasket can take in many cases. A lower mileage engine may tolerate a rapid rate of temp change, but why temp fate.
__________________
2003 GMC Envoy 5.3

Last edited by Mr Car Guy; 02-11-2010 at 05:59 PM.

Mr Car Guy is offline Mr Car Guy's Gallery  
Reply With Quote
Unread 02-11-2010, 05:53 PM   #5
Hammond Hand Luggage
 
cluffenstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 2,704
Rep: 61 cluffenstein will become famous soon enough
Default

Gandalf, Look who wrote the article, and look who made my car. Do we see a connection?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by TestEcull
He may have ruined his cylinder walls and compression wings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wierdo124
Yeah. Should hold up fine, long as you don't drive like a primate.

cluffenstein is offline cluffenstein's Gallery  
Reply With Quote
Unread 02-11-2010, 05:54 PM   #6
Community Director
 
Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 7,602
Rep: 153 Mike has a spectacular aura aboutMike has a spectacular aura about
Default

It shouldn't, Gandalf.

I know i've always driven my vehicles without warming them up. The 2500 takes a beating from plowing, always under load and i plow our driveway first. The intake has never even been off that engine, let alone the head gasket. Same with my Blazer. When it's -25F out, i'm more concerned about the steering and suspension than the engine. She's pretty stiff, but the truck starts perfectly fine and doesn't run any differently. I do think that its a good idea to let her idle for ~30 seconds before taking off, so i usually start it up, scrape the windshield, have a quick walk around to check tires, plow, etc, and then hop in and take off.
__________________
"He shouted: 'You've won! Didn't you know?' I didn't, and it's about the nicest thing I've ever been told" -Bruce McLaren, 1968 Belgian Grand Prix
Read the rules! | DO NOT REPLY TO SPAM
Daily Driver: 2006 Mazda 3 S sedan - 2.3L I4, 5 speed manual - 78k miles
Girlfriend's Car: 2013 Chevy Volt - 30k miles
Bikes: 1979 Yamaha XS 750


Mike is offline Mike's Gallery  
Reply With Quote
Unread 02-11-2010, 05:59 PM   #7
Hammond Hand Luggage
 
cluffenstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 2,704
Rep: 61 cluffenstein will become famous soon enough
Default

I turn mine on, fight with my iPod, get my seat belt on, turn off my heat. And thats like a minute.

A side question because I'm too lazy to make a new topic.

95% of the time in my car the heat is off (my vents close, or their supposed to). My mom smokes in the garage, and even if I keep the vents off when its parked. If I turn my heat on it the air smells like smoke for a good 15 minutes. Any way I can fix this, its downright annoying?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by TestEcull
He may have ruined his cylinder walls and compression wings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wierdo124
Yeah. Should hold up fine, long as you don't drive like a primate.

cluffenstein is offline cluffenstein's Gallery  
Reply With Quote
Unread 02-11-2010, 06:00 PM   #8
Veteran Member
 
Mr Car Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Surrey, BC, Canada
Posts: 2,052
Rep: 186 Mr Car Guy has a spectacular aura aboutMr Car Guy has a spectacular aura about
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cluffenstein View Post
Gandalf, Look who wrote the article, and look who made my car. Do we see a connection?
Case in point LOL
__________________
2003 GMC Envoy 5.3

Mr Car Guy is offline Mr Car Guy's Gallery  
Reply With Quote
Unread 02-11-2010, 07:07 PM   #9
Spah sappin' mah susp!
 
Kenny McCormick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Earth...I think
Posts: 3,271
Rep: 96 Kenny McCormick will become famous soon enough
Default

My theory as to why you wouldn't flog a cold engine is not related to the head gasket at all, but the pistons, connecting rods and crankshaft. Cold metal is brittle, metal tends to get brittle as it ages, and the forces those parts experience at high RPM and high throttle are staggering. It makes sense, then, that you can throw a rod or shatter a piston on a cold and old engine if you rev the nuts off it when it's cold. A new engine probably won't have this happen unless it's stupidly cold, but I've heard of 200K+ engines blowing up at as low as 2500RPM because the engine was still cold.

Coincidentally, the story I heard was a 3.8L V6 in a Mustang, and it was about 0F or so.

Whatever the reason, I don't flog my 300 untill it's warmed fully. More than likely all I'll do is flood it , but I don't want to take a chance on a bloody ancient piston shattering because I'm being a primate.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cluffenstein View Post
95% of the time in my car the heat is off (my vents close, or their supposed to). My mom smokes in the garage, and even if I keep the vents off when its parked. If I turn my heat on it the air smells like smoke for a good 15 minutes. Any way I can fix this, its downright annoying?

Either park her or the car outside of the garage, where the smoke won't settle in your cowl vents.
__________________
Tired Iron ain't got no time to wear out...

My rigs:

1985 Ford F150 | 4x2 | 300ci OHV inline six | 4-speed OD manual | 310K | No power brakes | Running 100% - It hasn't driven this good in 15 years!

1984 Ford F150 | 4x2 | 300ci six | granny four | 3.55 rear end | 210K | Brakes shot. Rear drums are doing most of the work. Not fit to drive due to that.
1997 Ford Explorer XLT | 4.0L Vulcan V6 | 5-speed automatic | shift-on-the-fly 4WD | 210,000 miles | Running 95% - Needs brakes on all four corners + bald tires
1989 Ford F150 | 300cid six...again | 5-speed | 4x4 | 160K | Needs brakes done as well. Oi!

Last edited by Kenny McCormick; 02-11-2010 at 09:53 PM.

Kenny McCormick is offline  
Reply With Quote
Unread 02-11-2010, 07:33 PM   #10
Hammond Hand Luggage
 
cluffenstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 2,704
Rep: 61 cluffenstein will become famous soon enough
Default

get a 51 year old cancer survivor with COPD outside to smoke? It took 18 years to get her into the garage, she'll be dead before she goes outside.

I won't put my focus above 3500 RPM, and thats trying to get out of my neighborhood on the 3rd busiest street in town without waiting days.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by TestEcull
He may have ruined his cylinder walls and compression wings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wierdo124
Yeah. Should hold up fine, long as you don't drive like a primate.

cluffenstein is offline cluffenstein's Gallery  
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:23 PM.

Shogun Interactive Development Copyright 2015 Shogun Interactive Development. All rights reserved.