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Unread 08-20-2010, 12:00 AM   #1
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Since we derailed the other thread, here's one dedicated to the matter. The Essex 3.8 vs the Buick series II. Pick up discussion here, i've moved the revelant posts.
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Last edited by Mike; 08-21-2010 at 09:27 PM.

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Unread 08-20-2010, 01:42 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor22 View Post
Definitely, the Ford kind not the GM kind. The Ford kind is already setup for RWD and will bolt to the Mazda transmission...
I like head gaskets that last more than 100K TYVM...
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Unread 08-20-2010, 10:27 AM   #3
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The first version of the Essex V6, a 3.8 L (3797 cc/232 cu in) engine, was introduced for the 1982 model year, appearing as an option on the Ford Granada.
Bore was 3.810 in (96.8 mm) and stroke was 3.390 in (86.1 mm).[4] Output was 112 horsepower (84 kW) at 4200 rpm and 175 lbft (237 Nm) of torque at 2800 rpm. It initially had a 2-barrel Motorcraft 2150 carburetor. Central Fuel Injection was made available in 1984. Output was 120 hp (89 kW) at 3600 rpm and 205 lbft (278 Nm) of torque at 1600 rpm in these models.
Multi-point fuel injection (single port) became standard on the 3.8 L V6 in 1988. All applications where the engine was used initially put out 140 horsepower (100 kW) at 3800 rpm and 215 lbft (292 Nm) of torque at 2400 rpm. Engines upgraded with Ford's EEC-V Powertrain Control Module (PCM) received a small increase in output to 145 horsepower (108 kW), if they didn't have other enhancements to increase output beyond this already. The 1991–1995 Police Package Taurus, 1991–1994 Lincoln Continental and 1995 Ford Windstar had a high-output version of the 3.8 with better cylinder heads and other modifications. It produced 155–160 hp (116–119 kW) and 220–225 lbft (298–305 Nm) of torque depending on application and model year. A supercharged version of the 3.8 L V6 was used in the 1989-1995 Thunderbird Super Coupe and 1989–90 Cougar XR-7. Initial output of the engine was 210 horsepower (160 kW) at 4000 rpm and 315 lbft (427 Nm) of torque at 2600 rpm under an 8.2:1 compression ratio. The Super Coupe was the sole user of this engine after it was dropped from the Cougar XR-7 in favor of a V8 from the 1991 model year onward. Output of the supercharged V6 was increased to 230 horsepower (170 kW) at 4400 rpm and 330 lbft (447 Nm) of torque at 2500 rpm
source: wiki

Quote:
Introduced in 1995, the Series II 3800 is quite a different engine. Although the stroke for the 3.8 L engine remained at 3.4 in (86 mm), and the bore remained at 3.8 in (97 mm), the engine architecture was vastly changed. The deck height is shorter than the Series I, reducing weight and total engine package size. This required that the piston connecting rods be shortened 1 in (25 mm), and the crankshaft was also redesigned. A new intake manifold improved breathing while a redesigned cylinder head featured larger valves and a higher compression ratio. The result was 205 hp (153 kW) and 230 lbft (312 Nm), better fuel economy, and 26 lb (12 kg) lighter overall weight (to 392 lb (178 kg)). The 3800 weighs only 22 lb (10.0 kg) more than the High Feature V6, despite being an all cast iron design.
The new intake manifold greatly improved airflow. To meet emissions standards, an EGR tube was placed in the intake manifold to reduce combustion temperatures. This increases fuel mileage by a substantial margin.
The 3800 Series II was on the Ward's 10 Best Engines list for 1995 through 1997.

The L67 is the supercharged version of the Series II L36 and appeared in 1996, one year after the normally-aspirated version. It uses the Eaton Generation III M90 supercharger with a 3.8" pulley, a different throttle body, fuel injectors, cylinder heads, and lower intake manifold than the L36 uses. Both engines share the same engine blocks, but compression is reduced from 9.4:1 in the L36 to 8.5:1 for the L67. Power is up to 240 hp (180 kW) and 280 lbft (380 Nm) of torque. Final drive ratios are reduced in most applications, for better fuel economy and more use of the engine's torque in the low range. The engine was built in Flint, Michigan. The engine was certified LEV in 2001.
Speaks for itself. Power and torque of the Buick 3800 (buick originally developed it) blows the Essex out of the water...also while the Essex V6 supercharged does have a low torque peak, it drops of faster. The L67 supercharged as torque out the ears anywhere.

The facts stand - whether you agree or not, the GM 3800 series II has been regarded by MANY people including magazines as the BEST V6 engine GM has ever made. Not only in performance, but reliability. The only reliability issue with 3800s is the early ones had intake problems, which take all of an hour to fix.
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Unread 08-20-2010, 11:08 AM   #4
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Hence why I'd use the L67 if I were going to swap a V6 into an RX7/8.

Raptor, Ford has never been able to figure out this V6 thing. Their inline sixes are good, their older V8s are good, their 4.6 is good if somewhat anemic and the new 5.0 should be something else from what I've seen. Everyting else? Kinda meh.


The Vulcan was a pretty reliable little engine though. I had an '03 Ranger with that engine. Never had a problem out of it, and it'd do a two wheeler through first and chirp second without a second thought.
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1984 Ford F150 | 4x2 | 300ci six | granny four | 3.55 rear end | 210K | Brakes shot. Rear drums are doing most of the work. Not fit to drive due to that.
1997 Ford Explorer XLT | 4.0L Vulcan V6 | 5-speed automatic | shift-on-the-fly 4WD | 210,000 miles | Running 95% - Needs brakes on all four corners + bald tires
1989 Ford F150 | 300cid six...again | 5-speed | 4x4 | 160K | Needs brakes done as well. Oi!

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Unread 08-20-2010, 11:23 AM   #5
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This is probably a dumb question but how difficult is it to use an engine designed for a FWD application in a RWD setup?
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Unread 08-20-2010, 11:33 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
This is probably a dumb question but how difficult is it to use an engine designed for a FWD application in a RWD setup?
Turn it sideways
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Unread 08-20-2010, 11:35 AM   #7
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If you can find a bell housing that will fit it not difficult at all. The Essex V6 was used in both RWD and FWD applications with no modifications to the block itself. Ford put it in everything from full size pickups to Tauruses, with varying amounts of success.

GM 3800s have been used in boats before. I've personally seen a boat so powered. So I imagine if you can get a bell housing to line up you can use one in a RWD application no problem.
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My rigs:

1985 Ford F150 | 4x2 | 300ci OHV inline six | 4-speed OD manual | 310K | No power brakes | Running 100% - It hasn't driven this good in 15 years!

1984 Ford F150 | 4x2 | 300ci six | granny four | 3.55 rear end | 210K | Brakes shot. Rear drums are doing most of the work. Not fit to drive due to that.
1997 Ford Explorer XLT | 4.0L Vulcan V6 | 5-speed automatic | shift-on-the-fly 4WD | 210,000 miles | Running 95% - Needs brakes on all four corners + bald tires
1989 Ford F150 | 300cid six...again | 5-speed | 4x4 | 160K | Needs brakes done as well. Oi!

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Unread 08-20-2010, 11:48 AM   #8
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Also, Kenny, RANGER DANGER!!!
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Unread 08-20-2010, 07:14 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny McCormick View Post
If you can find a bell housing that will fit it not difficult at all. The Essex V6 was used in both RWD and FWD applications with no modifications to the block itself. Ford put it in everything from full size pickups to Tauruses, with varying amounts of success.

GM 3800s have been used in boats before. I've personally seen a boat so powered. So I imagine if you can get a bell housing to line up you can use one in a RWD application no problem.
Actually the bell housing pattern is the same on most. You could also pick up older 3.8L from a rear wheel drive and swap a few components to adapt it to the GEN II. Or even a 4.3L and adapt it to a 3.8L gen II they were the same engine with different displacement, and were available in rear drive through like 2004. The 3.8L was also available in 3rd gen camaro's with rear wheel drive till 2002, and isn't very sought after so should come cheap. Also don't forget the performance options available aftermarket for building one since they have a Camaro following.
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Unread 08-20-2010, 08:22 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wierdo124 View Post
source: wiki



Speaks for itself. Power and torque of the Buick 3800 (buick originally developed it) blows the Essex out of the water...also while the Essex V6 supercharged does have a low torque peak, it drops of faster. The L67 supercharged as torque out the ears anywhere.

The facts stand - whether you agree or not, the GM 3800 series II has been regarded by MANY people including magazines as the BEST V6 engine GM has ever made. Not only in performance, but reliability. The only reliability issue with 3800s is the early ones had intake problems, which take all of an hour to fix.
Nope if you read the articles properly its:

230/330 For the Ford
240/280 For the GM

The Ford has the GM beat...

And you dont have to do headgaskets every 100k if you use half decent gaskets and torque the head bolts properly...

The 3.8L has the Windsor bell housing so nearly any Ford transmission will fit...
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