CarForum.net - Car Forums, Automotive News and Community
Home Gallery Register Calendar Members List

Go Back   CarForum.net - Car Forums, Automotive News and Community > Car Parts and Maintenance > Tires / Wheels / Rims

Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools
Unread 02-02-2016, 03:53 PM   #1
New Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 1
Rep: 10 johnjaxs is on a distinguished road
Default Need Help Choosing New Tires

Hi, I am replacing the tires on my 2013 Hyundai Elantra (tire size 205/55R16) and need help deciding between these two:

Firehawk Wide Oval AS

VS

Winter Sottozero Serie II

I am leaning more towards the Sottozero, however I will not be using them in a winter environment, so I am seeking advice on what tire would be best.

johnjaxs is offline  
Reply With Quote
Unread 02-02-2016, 05:02 PM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 99
Rep: 12 deltaolds is on a distinguished road
Default

compare thread wear, temperature, dry\wet traction, noise numbers, it will give you the answer. the numbers you can find on tires themselves, or on manufacturer websites, also tire rack or other tire retailers may have them too.
do not go by someones opinion, (chances that someone here used both of these tires are very slim) go by actual characteristics

Last edited by deltaolds; 02-02-2016 at 05:11 PM.

deltaolds is offline  
Reply With Quote
Unread 02-02-2016, 08:10 PM   #3
Community Director
 
Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 7,602
Rep: 153 Mike has a spectacular aura aboutMike has a spectacular aura about
Default

You're comparing snow tires to all seasons. You shouldn't be.

If you're not using them in a winter environment the winter tires are completely useless.
__________________
"He shouted: 'You've won! Didn't you know?' I didn't, and it's about the nicest thing I've ever been told" -Bruce McLaren, 1968 Belgian Grand Prix
Read the rules! | DO NOT REPLY TO SPAM
Daily Driver: 2006 Mazda 3 S sedan - 2.3L I4, 5 speed manual - 78k miles
Girlfriend's Car: 2013 Chevy Volt - 30k miles
Bikes: 1979 Yamaha XS 750


Mike is offline Mike's Gallery  
Reply With Quote
Unread 02-03-2016, 08:11 AM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 81
Rep: 12 Drivemaster is on a distinguished road
Default

To say the least...

A winter tyre in a warm environment is going to be quite a hazard, because you will have far less grip and take longer to stop if the need arises to stop in a hurry. The results can be very bad.

The reason is that tyres are none-coulomb friction devices in that they create some stiction with the tar in the road, in addition to the mechanical grip element.

A soft winter tyre in a sudden braking situations heats to the point of boiling, so a film of boubly rubber segregates it from the road. This reduces the coefficient of friction and removes the chemical binding element.

It also means that a winter tyre with a greater void ratio suffers from reduced coefficient of friction because of the compliance of rubber under the vertical load.

Drivemaster is offline  
Reply With Quote
Unread 02-03-2016, 04:03 PM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 99
Rep: 12 deltaolds is on a distinguished road
Default

you guys are being overly dramatic.
none snow tires would be better when driving not in snow, but even snow tires would work ok, they would be more noisy, and drop mpg a bit . sure traction on dry\wet road would be better on paper for none snow tires, but how noticeable would it be in real world, if not pushing them to limits.
btw, my old suv has snow tires for 4 years that i have it, i do not drive it much, may be 2-4k a year, i do not drive it hard, besides being noisy i do not feel any issues.
but i would not want snow tires on my daily car. noise and rolling resistance would not be something i want in daily driver, just like i would not want all season tires in a snow.

deltaolds is offline  
Reply With Quote
Unread 02-03-2016, 04:27 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 81
Rep: 12 Drivemaster is on a distinguished road
Default

Driver coaching and investigating car collisions (on and off the road) tends to do it to a man...

You just see so many cases where the thought comes to the back of your head that if there was more stopping power in the brake-damper-tyre assembly - the driver would have not hit that truck/pedestrian/pole.

It's not solved by the fact that the first things most drivers involved would say would be: "If only I had just four more feet to avoid it..."

The point I am making is that tyres shouldn't just "last" (in terms of wear and integrity), they should be regarded as our main primary safety device, in that they provide grip for braking and cornering that might prove crucial.

This means using the right tyre for the job (i.e. winter tyres for hard winter only), using tyres from a respected brand, replacing tyres in good time (so your example of four year old tyres is poor), and keeping them well inflated.

Let me put this another way: Brakes don't stop your car, tyres do. Would you fit your car with brakes that aren't effective or suitable to the car and conditions? Surely than you should not do so with tyres.

Drivemaster is offline  
Reply With Quote
Unread 02-04-2016, 10:54 AM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 99
Rep: 12 deltaolds is on a distinguished road
Default

sure blame it on tires, those drivers would have extra few feet if they were not going as fast, paid more attention to the road, and kept proper distance. but since you clam to be in collision investigation businesses, tell me what % of crashes happen due to human error, vs equipment failure? i'll tell you, 94% are due to human error, only 2% are contributed to cars.

i have been working in body shop, and have seen plenty of crashed cars, police reports, i can't think of a single accident that seem to be caused by snow tires in the summer., (thou the other way around in common, people slide and crash on ice, and snow pretty often, regardless of tires). snow always brings new customers.

i got another example my daily driver is a lease, i swap them every 3 years, they all come with all season low rolling resistance tires, i drive them everyday to\from work, in snow\rain or shine, and know i do not have snow tires when i drive in snow, so i do not follow cars too close, reduce speed, and do not try to make any sharp turns fast, i take extra caution, and haven't had any issues. thou i try to use my suv when it snows, but sometimes it does not work out.
so no i have to say you will not have any problem in the summer on snow tires, as long as you drive safely.
not the best tool for the job, but it will still get the job done.

Last edited by deltaolds; 02-04-2016 at 11:27 AM.

deltaolds is offline  
Reply With Quote
Unread 02-04-2016, 07:11 PM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 81
Rep: 12 Drivemaster is on a distinguished road
Default

My figures tend to show a resounding loss to the human factor at about 98% of the cases, versus just 4% caused by mechanical problems. But we are not talking here about tyre failure as in a blow out, but in the tyre's inability to provide enough stopping power, which isn't really brought into account there.

Now, when you actually get down to it, you find that virtually all collisions are not caused by a single factor. If they were thn they'd happen far more often. It's the inopportune combination of reasons that accumulates to colliding.

Assume a driver hit an obstacle of some sort after they failed to stop in time. What could be the causes?The overall stopping distance being made of both reaction time and the actual braking distance, you often end up with a myriad of factors joined together. What follows is a typical example:

The Driver's excessive speed leads to more road covered during the reaction time; Driver's general lack of focus leads to increased reaction times; Driver's hesitation to hit the brakes at once increases reaction time further;Driver's hesitation is elongated by indecisiveness between braking and steering; Driver's seating far back reduces further the rate of application of the brakes; Driver's worn tyres and dampers elongate the stopping distance; Driver's excessive speed elongates the braking distance.

So even in a very common example, without looking into other possible factors like fatigue, drink-driving, distractions, worn brakes, loose load in the car, bad footwear, panic at the onset of ABS and probably a few other things - we still have at least seven solid factors that led to the given collision, one of which is the tyres. But in a simple forenstic investigation only one or two of these factors might be pointed out.

As for your personal success at driving in the snow without winter tyres - there's room for statistical error in driving. Even sleep-walkers can drive and happen to not hit anything, so succeding in driving with summer tyres in the snow proves nothing in itself.

I really doubt you maintain nearly as much following distance as you need to stop in due time with such tyres fitted. Even with my most prudent clients I see consistent lack of adequate following distance even assuming dry conditions with a perfectly focused driver in a car with good braking performance.

What is more likely is that you haven't been in a situation where the "lead" driver had to brake hard enough to expose the weakness of your tyre choice - again, by pure chance beyond anything else.

Last edited by Drivemaster; 02-04-2016 at 07:34 PM.

Drivemaster is offline  
Reply With Quote
Unread 02-04-2016, 08:27 PM   #9
Community Director
 
Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 7,602
Rep: 153 Mike has a spectacular aura aboutMike has a spectacular aura about
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltaolds View Post
you guys are being overly dramatic.
none snow tires would be better when driving not in snow, but even snow tires would work ok, they would be more noisy, and drop mpg a bit . sure traction on dry\wet road would be better on paper for none snow tires, but how noticeable would it be in real world, if not pushing them to limits.
btw, my old suv has snow tires for 4 years that i have it, i do not drive it much, may be 2-4k a year, i do not drive it hard, besides being noisy i do not feel any issues.
but i would not want snow tires on my daily car. noise and rolling resistance would not be something i want in daily driver, just like i would not want all season tires in a snow.
But why on earth would one buy snow tires if you have no intention to drive them on snow?
__________________
"He shouted: 'You've won! Didn't you know?' I didn't, and it's about the nicest thing I've ever been told" -Bruce McLaren, 1968 Belgian Grand Prix
Read the rules! | DO NOT REPLY TO SPAM
Daily Driver: 2006 Mazda 3 S sedan - 2.3L I4, 5 speed manual - 78k miles
Girlfriend's Car: 2013 Chevy Volt - 30k miles
Bikes: 1979 Yamaha XS 750


Mike is offline Mike's Gallery  
Reply With Quote
Unread 02-05-2016, 09:50 AM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 99
Rep: 12 deltaolds is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike View Post
But why on earth would one buy snow tires if you have no intention to drive them on snow?
i absolutely agree, no reason, i'm just against all the drama that was written above. even if he gets snow tires, for whatever reason (availability, price...etc) there is no reason to think he'll be in danger, or he'll crash.

deltaolds is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:44 PM.

Shogun Interactive Development Copyright 2015 Shogun Interactive Development. All rights reserved.